I have decided to discontinue my story on this thread. Have discovered that threads die as new ones come on stream, and this one has been left in the dust.
Somewhere along the line I will continue with a more recent thread.
Posts by Rod P
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31X-JW , X-Mormon & More OR: Around the World's Religions in 60 Years!
by Rod P inhi people!
i am new here, but started out on the topic of "high rates of depression in org.
" there are 3 posts, one of which has been pasted below on my new thread.
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36
Can it be true?
by WA Boy ini had to stop crying so i could write this and if you saw me you wouldn't think i would be the type to cry!
i am a 35 year old man from western australia....i should be tough....or so they say.
i have never posted anything before so excuse my fractured writing.
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Rod P
WA Boy,
You have come to the right place. Welcome aboard.
Perhaps what is happening to you of late is that the trauma of your past is beginning to surface. Sooner or later it has to come out. You have kept so much inside yourself for so many years, as many "tough guys" do. Yeah, guys are supposed to be self-sufficient and don't need anybody else, because there ain't nothin' we can't handle. Of course, we never cry or show our feelings. None of that sissy stuff. And so we march on, suffering in silence. We don't even know what we are doing to ourselves when we bottle it all up inside.
Your body is trying to tell you something. You have to release this, and let it go, let it out. In the process you may even be shocked to find yourself crying and weeping uncontrollaby. But that's OK. The little boy inside of you needs comfort, forgiveness and acceptance. It's time you allowed this to happen. Share your thoughts and feelings, and don't be afraid to let them show, especially to the ones closest to you and who love you the most- your wife and family. You will find this release a tremendous therapy, and you will know you are on the path of healing.
When my father died, I kept it all inside. Nobody was gonna see me cry, nosiree! For a time it worked, but then one day I bawled my eyes out. Lucky I was with some close relatives at the time, who understood, and told me that I had to let it out, because it's going to come out sometime anyway. This is called "grieving". I am telling you this, because I think what you are going thru is a kind of grieving process, except that it has been a long time coming.
The other thing that will help you along the way is if you continue to explore some of the JW stuff that has kept you virtually trapped inside this Cultic, Controlling, Judging, Condemning System. All too many of us simply believed and went along with it, so that virtually we became "programmed" in our brains to respond with fear and terror if we crossed the lines of the strict rules and regulations of "Watchtower think". In spite of all our reasoning and rationale, we just cannot control our emotional responses to the expectations of the Elders and the propaganda of the Watchtower teachings that have moulded our minds, so that we became Mental and Emotional Captives. The remedy to all this is to remove ourselves from it, and then begin the long process of "de-programming" ourselves. You will suffer withdrawal symptoms, but just keep at it and do not become discouraged. This JWD Forum can contribute immeasurably towards helping you during this time, as there is a tremendous amount of wisdom you can access. You will also find there are a lot of angry people here too, but that's O.K. If you want to vent your frustrations, just do it. It will make you feel better, and a lot of people will jump on to your thread and tell you "Amen, brother!"
All the best, and if you want support at any time, your just come here and let us know.
Rod P.
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29
what's yo fantasy?!
by kittyeatzjdubs inso me and my boyfriend were discussing this last night and i wanted to get y'alls opinion.
when the org crumbles and falls how do you see it happening?
i like this idea: the fbi raids bethel, finds a bunch of illegal stuff (money laundering, list of known and active pedophiles, etc.
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Rod P
My fantasy is that the God of the Universe would appear before all of mankind and tell each one the Whole, Real Truth so that all of us could cut thru all the B.S. that is out there.
I would also like to see God make all the A-holes and Abusers of the World (including the Terrorists & War-Mongers, Greedy Corporate Executives & CEO's, Corrupt Politicians, Environmental Spoilers, and Religious Despots & Propaganizers, all of who manipulate and control the masses to their own ends, be made to wear some kind of conspicuous Mark or Brand (like the Mark of the Beast). I want to see them have to spend the rest of their lives walking around on Planet Earth, with the whole world seeing who these guys are, and not be allowed to hide behind the shroud of Religious, Political or Corporate anonymity. In the case of the Spiritual Leaders, not only would I like to see them branded, vulnerable and exposed, I would also like to see them receive a taste of their own medicine by way of the whole world "Shunning Them", and see how they like it! Never mind, that is probably what would happen to them anyway.
And while God is down here getting rid of all the Crime, Corruption and Injustive, I would also want Him to irradicate Hunger and Disease in the world. It has gone on for too long now, and the whole thing is a travesty!
Then I think we would probably see the world improve immeasurably for the better, and we would all be a lot happier.
Rod P.
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32
Why don't people put anyting in ther bio????
by Lehaa in.
was just looking at the depression post and looking at pepole's biography.. why doesn't a lot of members put anything in there bio.. i undersatnd that many may not want to be identified, but i think bio makes it easier for us to undersand each others history.
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Rod P
Thanks Bebu. I'll try that. But later; busy right now.
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32
Why don't people put anyting in ther bio????
by Lehaa in.
was just looking at the depression post and looking at pepole's biography.. why doesn't a lot of members put anything in there bio.. i undersatnd that many may not want to be identified, but i think bio makes it easier for us to undersand each others history.
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Rod P
Well, I presume you mean something on your "Profile" by your "name" (pseudonym"). Don't have a problem giving info if I could figure out how, and why nothing seems to respond when I try it. I also do not care if other JW's or members of the hierarchy do read my profile. I have nothing to hide, while they are the ones who have caused all the misery and heartache in so many people's lives, with destroyed marriages and families, etc., while blaming us apostates for it all.
When I signed up on the JWD, I had never done this kind of thing before. I considered it an accomplishment just to log on and sign up.
After reading a few threads and lots of posts, I began to learn how to navigate around the system, which led me to the Membership Directory. There I discovered all this interesting Bio stuff, and thought I should do the same. So I went to my spot and tried to enter something for my Profile. Nothing seemed to work. Oh well, I guess I need to stay here a while until I discover how to do it. Later I tried again, and again nothing worked. So I gave up. But I did start my own thread and wrote an extensive "Story of My Life" which anyone can go to if they go to "RodP" and then click on to "Topic History" where you will see my thread. Click on that and you will goto my story. But the story is only half-way completed, so was planning on finishing the rest of it in the weeks ahead. However, now I have noticed that threads die and get lost in the shuffle as new threads and topics come on stream. That's why I think trying to finish it would be a waste of time.
In the meantime, I still don't know how to enter my profile. Any ideas or instructions out there?
Rod P.
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59
Which is worse - the Jehovah's Witness or the Mormons?
by inquirer inif someone put a gun to your head and you had to choose, which one would you say is the worst?
also, which religion is more doctrinally incorrect?
which religion has the most false end of the world dates?
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Rod P
Lucky,
No, I was unaware of any South Park episode on the Mormons, so can't comment.
I don't know which Mormon community you are talking about, but my instincts tell me it was probably in Utah, or maybe Idaho. The woman you are talking about was most likely one who was born into the faith, and surrounded by a majority Mormon population, and also most likely multi-generational Mormon. Individuals like these often live a pretty sheltered life, and get spoon-fed almost everything they know, as opposed to studying on your own initiative to find out what you should know.
Regarding the Bible, Mormons "believe the Bible to be the Word of God insofar as it is translated correctly". The King James Version is the one they accept most, as they believe it is the most accurate translation out there. (That is why that LDS woman probably thought the Bible was written in the King's English, because that's probably the only Bible she has ever seen. Probably no-one ever told her about all the other translations or versions of the Bible, and how it was written in Hebrew and Greek, etc.)
Mormonism teaches that the Church of Jesus Christ has a living Prophet who continues to receive new Revelations from God. During the time of the Old Testament, the Nation of Israel had living Prophets who received revelations; and at the time of the Apostles revelations continued to be received. Many new revelations were revealed along the way. Protestants teach that the last revelation has been given, and all the needed Revelations have been recorded in the Bible, and so there is no longer any need for living Prophets or New Revelations. In other words, the Heavens are sealed. Mormons see this as illogical and inconsistent with the way God deals with His people at any age. He has always revealed His Will thru a Prophet in the past, and there is nothing to say or prove that He is any different today.
For this reason, those born into Mormonism and live all their lives in a majority Mormon populated community feel they are simply following the ways of Old, listening to the message of God's Chosen Prophet, which is no different to them than you and I studying the Bible containing God's Revelations to understand God's will.
The whole problem with all this, as I see it, is that it all depends whether the Prophet at the head of the Mormon Church is a true Prophet of God, or not. The question behind that one is, Is the Mormon Church the True Church? and does what it teach constitute the Truth from God? How are we to know for sure? If you use the "Bible only" as the measuring rod for judging whether Mormonism is true or not, then there will follow a huge debate, because Mormon scholars have some pretty interesting arguments and interpretations of what is supposedly contained within the pages of the Bible. At B.Y.U. they offer courses in Religion, and Biblical studies, and they do get into studies of Hebrew and Greek and ancient languages and manuscripts, etc. etc. It might surprise you how well their arguments can hold up against conventional Protestant and Catholic interpretations of the Bible. (I know this, because I spent over 9 years studying it from a Mormon perspective.) But the question of Mormonism is even more complicated than this, for the reason that they have additional "Scriptures" which they consider to be on a par with the Bible (for example, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price). Without getting into long dissertations on those, suffice it to say that Mormons consider these to be inspired of God and containing important revelations that are not found in the Bible, or else clarify a number of ambiguous teachings that are in the Bible, or that have been lost or distorted because of problems of translation.
Anyway, I am not trying to act as a Mormon apologist here, but rather just trying to explain how and why they are the way they are, so that you can understand better what is going on as you see these people in their day to day lives.
Anyway, as for the lady who did not know her Bible, I can assure you this is not typical of Mormons at large. Many of them know their Bibles by virtue of them being converted to Mormonism from other religions. Some from inside the Church have become ardent Biblical scholars, and can hold their own against scholars outside the Church. Every year, thousands of Church members go on a mission for two years somewhere in the world, and these people become pretty trained in the Bible, since they have to talk to people of other faiths and must know where these other people are coming from when dealing with religion and matters of faith and the scriptures.
Rod P.
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59
Which is worse - the Jehovah's Witness or the Mormons?
by inquirer inif someone put a gun to your head and you had to choose, which one would you say is the worst?
also, which religion is more doctrinally incorrect?
which religion has the most false end of the world dates?
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Rod P
drwtsn32;
I suspect most of your ideas of Mormonism's strange rituals have to do with the Mormon Temples and what goes on inside. To understand this, you must know something of Church History. In Joseph Smith's day a number of Mormon converts were Masons. They came to J.S. and showed him essentially their Code of Ethics, and asked if there was anything wrong with this. Joseph didn't see anything wrong, so he became a Mason too. As a matter of fact, he became the head of the Nauvoo Chapter. Then he is supposed to have received a revelation about the temple endowment ceremony, and in it is supposed to be revealed the original teachings from the time of King Solomon. The Masons on the other hand, claim a historical connection, that all this was handed down to them over the centuries since the days of Solomon. (Many historians discount this as myth, though, saying that evidences show they actually began during the middle ages.)
Whatever difference may exist between the Mormon practices in the temple and those secret signs, tokens and penalties, etc. as practiced by the Masons is attributed by the Mormons as a restoration of original truth; whereas the Masonic practices were subject to errors creeping in down thru the centuries as it got passed along. So now, to consider the Mormons as being weird in their practices and rituals in this area probably has a lot to do with not knowing or understanding what is going on. Of course, if you consider the Masons all a bunch of weirdos, then I suppose it is just as likely, that you would consider the Mormons weirdo's as well.
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Which is worse - the Jehovah's Witness or the Mormons?
by inquirer inif someone put a gun to your head and you had to choose, which one would you say is the worst?
also, which religion is more doctrinally incorrect?
which religion has the most false end of the world dates?
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Rod P
Qcumbre;
I got converted and baptised into the JW religion back in 1962 in the City of Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada, which, at that time, had a population of around 20,000. There were about 100+ JW's in the Congregation back then. To get any sense of what it was like in a JW community on any kind of a scale, you would have to participate in their Circuit and District Assemblies in the larger cities like Calgary, Edmonton or Vancouver. In terms of the day-to-day, life pretty much revolved around Kingdom Hall meetings, local book studies, and field service. The brothers and sisters would circulate amongst themselves, inviting one another to reciprocating suppers, and once in a while, some social gatherings, like on a farm, where you played home-style baseball and Saturday night dances to waltzes, polkas, and accordian music- and had a ball. None of this involved interacting with the community at large. I certainly enjoyed the social aspects of this life, and did not feel the need to pursue interests outside this closed society (Not that outsiders weren't welcome to join in as "potential converts"....er I mean guests.)
When I got married, my wife, who was raised as a JW, along with her many brothers, had a different experience overall. They lived on a farm and went to a nearby small town school in a mostly rural community, where the majority of the students were either Mormon or Mennonite. They were the only JW's in the school, and then there were a couple of Buddhists that also attended. During school baseball games, when the JW boys were up-to-bat, the Mormon kids on their side would yell "Come on Jehovah! Come on Jehovah! Hit a home run!" (They were pretty good in baseball because there were enough brothers, so they could practice at home on the farm.) My wife's experience growing up was that she thought the Mormon kids really thought they were IT! She also felt they were prejudiced against JW's and the poor little Buddhists (i.e. the Majority persecuting the Minority- and boy, do kids treat each other mean.) She did not have this kind of negative experience with the Mennonites at the same school.
As a convert to Mormonism, of course, I was ostracized from the JW's, but then I met some really nice Mormon friends. It's just that I couldn't join in with the married couples because of the divided home situation. When I went to Salt Lake City and Brigham Young University at Provo, Utah, I saw a lot of the spirit of love and brotherhood, but then I also sensed a lot of pride in some of them, bordering on self-righteousness. By and large, though, I think they are pretty nice people, doctrines notwithstanding. I think all religions have virtually all personality types within their ranks, so that should not be the measure of the Church itself, IMHO.
Satanus;
As a JW, I was very active in field service, including Pioneering. Later on, as a Mormon, I went door-to-door doing Missionary work. I found it ironical one day, that as a Mormon, I and my companion were going down one side of the street knocking on doors, while right across the street were a pair of JW'ss also knocking on doors. It was like we were in competition, trying to get to the households before the other guys did. A bolt of deja vu went thru me as I watched them go down the block and following our trail. My companion and I laughed about it in amusement. Secretly though, it felt like a kind of "split personality", like wondering if I should put on my JW hat or my Mormon hat. Those poor, unsuspecting householders!
As for the "pitches", I know that the Mormon missionaries are much more intensively trained than are Jehovah's Witnesses in general (excluding the more gifted JW leaders and speakers). They have some pretty dynamic salesman types knocking on doors, if you know what I mean, but then, would it make sense to send out people unprepared and unskilled at any kind of presentation? No, of course not. So why expect anything less?
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Prayers at mealtime!!?
by Frog inwho still find it strange years on to dive straight into your mail meal without 'giving thanks'?
i say main meal, because dad's prayers were always considerably lengthy before a main meal, and are an institution in every jw household.
even now after a few years i'm just about ready to tuck in when i find myself saying a simple thanks under my breath.
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Rod P
I don't oppose prayer at mealtime, but I do oppose a lot of the hyprocrisy that seems to be associated with it. It appears to me that a lot of believers have had a lot of practice in the fine art of speech making, and then use that skill to wax eloquent at mealtme. This is the kind of hypocrisy that I think has little or nothing to do with real Christianity.
As an aside, years ago I read, for better or for worse, something to the effect of the following:
The Egyptians, at one point in their history, worshipped their Sun God, the One God, RA. They would pray to RA for everything they wished for, and then at the end of their prayers would say "RA-men"- which meant "May RA grant it to be so". Now along come the Israelites, and later the Christians, who pray to the One Ture God, meals or otherwise, and then end with AMEN (RA-men). It sounds like they are praying to the True God, and then in the end, are asking that the Sun God make it so.
Just a thought!
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Gumby where`s our Sunday school study?
by vitty ingumby.
im so bored today and your sunday school study was so funny.. please do one--pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
what about doing one in balaam and the talking donkey?.
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Rod P
Aw, Gumby's either playing hookie, or else he's stuck on the mount of "Transfiguration". I told him to quit persecuting Jesus, so now maybe he's being stricken with "speechlessness", just like John the Baptist's dad was for several months.
Maybe the Ol' Fart just can't keep pace with all these young whippersnappers. He just didn't realize the responsibility he was taking on when he donned his new outfit (i.e. that red Cardinal suit"). It's a good thing it's a rental, so at least he can return it without paying an arm and a leg for only a couple of Sundays. Sheeesh! I thought he would have stuck it out a little longer than that!